Ep 150 - Unveiling Truths: Navigating Media Censorship and Building Credible PR Strategies in the Digital Age

In recent times, the issue of media censorship has sparked widespread debate, raising questions about its impact on the credibility of public relations. In our upcoming episode, we're excited to delve into this complex topic with April Margulies from Trust Relations Agency. Discover more about their innovative approach at Trust Relations Agency.

Public Relations (PR) is not just a component of your marketing strategy; it's the powerhouse driving your brand's visibility and reputation. It's about more than just making headlines; it's about crafting a narrative that earns third-party credibility and fosters trust in your brand. But in an era where major tech platforms like Facebook, Google, and YouTube are scrutinized for information censorship, how does this affect your PR campaigns? With growing skepticism towards media credibility, what strategies should companies adopt to effectively communicate with their target audience?

PR is invaluable in establishing your brand's credibility, leveraging the authoritative voice of the press. It not only broadens your brand awareness but also positions your company as a frontrunner in your industry.

Are you aiming to make a splash in the headlines with your brand's story? Tune in as April and Ronjini share practical, actionable insights to elevate your PR strategy starting today.

Don't forget to Like and Share this episode to spread the word. Interested in boosting your brand's credibility and PR outreach? Visit our website to learn how we can assist you in achieving your PR goals.

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua 

 Hello, welcome to our very first session of the PR essentials webinar series. 12 Days of Christmas. We're gonna be talking about censorship in the media and the credibility of PR with President founder of trust relations. April, April, Margulies. How are you doing? April, thank you for joining me today.

April White

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. I can't believe I'm the the kicking this thing off? Oh, yeah. And honor. Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua  00:44

we're gonna have a good time, we're gonna have a good time. It's, it feels like the holidays, I should have had a Christmas tree in the back. But other than that, I'm really excited to talk about this topic. This came up during our podcast, the PR playbook podcast, and actually came up today when I was talking to a client of ours and wow, yeah, just just why it was so difficult to get media coverage these days. And just talking about the shifting media landscape is really interesting. So I'm going to hand it over to you to have you kick it off. And I'm excited to learn more.

01:19

Awesome. Well, it's going to be a big journey today. So thank you, for everyone for sticking with us. We're going to start a little bit and getting to the statistics about where we're currently at. And then I'm going to borrow from some of the techniques of building trust for businesses to get into what can we do as a society to help get the credibility of the media back. So that's the journey we're taking today. I just want to start by stating the obvious, which is that the credibility of the news media in the US is hovering near all time lows. Now, according to recent studies, it's really alarming. About 70% of US adults say that their trust in the news media has decreased in the past decade. So this is, you know, this is getting pretty serious. From 2003 to 2016. Americans who have a great deal of trust in the media fell from 54%, which isn't great to begin with right to 32%. And so sorry, I'm getting over a cold. So there may be some coughing happening throughout the webinar here today. So most Americans now including nine and 10 Republicans say that they have personally lost trust in the news media in recent years. Almost all Republicans 94% And then political conservatives 95% say their trust decreased in the past decade 75% of independents 66% of moderates, so it's it's obviously plummeting. Excuse me, I'm gonna I think that'll be the last third clear, let's find out. So when asked to describe why they don't trust certain news organizations, most Americans responded on advice on matters of inaccuracy. 66% are bias. And the most commonly expressed responses were about inaccurate reporting misleading reporting lies, alternative facts, fake news, are biased or are slanted or unfair reporting. About 23% Say that one sided or unbalanced or incomplete reporting causes them to distrust news organizations, and then about 16% Say that quote unquote news that's grounded in opinions or emotions, or politically or partisan focus coverage is what's causing them to lose this trust in the news organizations. What I found interesting is that young adults are between 18 to 34, actually twice as likely as older adults that are 55 Plus, to say that partisan bias or politically focused news is a really big factor in their distrust of the news media. They're also more likely than older adults to mention bias slanted or unfair reporting, which is interesting, again, to me, because I feel like there's a legacy of, of, you know, unbiased reporting among older adults. But then the young people are the ones that are actually like really alarmed by this. And both Republicans and Democrats were less likely to trust new sources that had a partisan reputation that opposes their own. However, what's really interesting is that they also didn't express greater trust in news organizations that have a partisan leaning that matches their own. So in general, people are not trusting news organizations that have a partisan leaning, even if it's consistent with what they believe.

Ronjini Joshua  04:42

I think part of it is like, Well, why but that's yeah, it's I think, I mean, it's just too much it's, there's too many things to think about. And it's really hard to navigate whether like, should I or should I not trust there's just too many questions, so you just kind of ignore them altogether. Right,

05:00

totally. Yeah. No. And I mean, these statistics are obviously like, terrifying, right? Man, this is especially alarming for for Pete, PR people and businesses. But why? So I mean, obviously for decades, businesses have been leveraging PR to build their brand's credibility, right. So we've got all these other dimensions of PR, of course, this crisis comms, etc. But in general PR is really synonymous with media relations. And you know, the definition is the art of pitching newsworthy ideas to journalists for inclusion in their stories. So the problem is that if journalists have been, you know, the traditional way for brands to get credibility built through being included in those publications, what happens when the publications no longer have the credibility that they want stead, right. So instead of, you know, having this perceived value that you get from being included in the third party validation of the news, organization, stories and segments and things like that, suddenly that's gone.

Ronjini Joshua  06:05

Also one of these things, you know, one of the things that, like, really, the question I had about this, mostly is like, because the media landscape is shifting, you know, how, like, we talked about hopefully having a journalist on here, and we couldn't get anyone to join us today. But we will have some journalists in some future webinars series. And I might have to recirculate and ask them the question of what is it that makes them work for a media outlet? It because a lot of these people are freelancers, and they just need to write, they need to work. But then I remember mid 2020, where a couple of people told us and this was, I probably shouldn't name the outlet. But there was a couple of people that told us like, hey, you know, I'm leaving this outlet, because of these guys are like not good business. And I'm not I refuse to work with them. And so it was really impressive to see a journalist take a stand against their paycheck, you know, like and leave. But it's it's just really interesting to see that those those dynamics are playing out in the media.

07:09

For sure. Yeah, yeah. So I like to say, you know, that advertising is kind of like going to an open mic. If you're a, you know, an artist, and you're introducing yourself on the stage. And it's kind of like, okay, yeah, it's true, you're great. But PR is obviously the place where it's more like having established artists that introduces you as the next up and coming act, and you're the best thing that's ever happened, and you're on a large stadium stage, right. So there's something about PR that no other part of the marketing mix can really match. Right. And it works, obviously, again, because in the past, we've traditionally viewed media as being an unbiased source of information. So they're therefore you know, providing a platform of credibility building. But the big issue is that what happens if obviously, what we're saying is, the media starts to not have the same level of credibility, and it doesn't have the same feeling of independence. And then what happens in terms of PR? Have you ever

Ronjini Joshua  08:14

had that experience? Or like, who fact check this story? Like, who? Who actually, like, yeah, we we pitch stuff all the time, right? Like, we we hope to think we're drinking our juice, we love our clients, and we want to pitch their story. But at the end of the day, it's like such a big responsibility to make sure that what they're saying is, right, and what we're saying is right. Like, it's, it's crazy to think that, you know, sometimes I wonder, like, are we in the right business, because we're pitching all different kinds of stories all the time, but it's really the journalist responsibility to make sure they're saying the right thing. And it's just like, it's very nerve wracking, like, like, what you're saying here is just, it really does build on the five foundational elements of public relations, what we do and and how brands are perceived. It's just like, crazy to see that, you know, the statistics that you presented about the trust, because there goes PR out the window. Exactly.

09:10

Know that. That's exactly right. And that's why I mean, that's why I'm so passionate. But I'm actually a former journalist, myself, as you know, I think but it's also, you know, in general, this is a really concerning situation, not just for publicists, obviously, because what happens to our industry, but also what in the world is going to happen as a society, if we no longer have an opportunity for people to feel like they have unbiased sources of information, right? The entire you know, freedom of America, like both on having freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, right. So, so what happens if it starts to feel like that's dwindling? Yeah. So so it's a big deal, obviously. You know, there's another there's more scary statistics here about 44% of Americans saying that they can actually think of a news source that reports the news objectively 44% That's it that they can think cannot think of a news organization that reports objectively 66% of Americans say that news media outlets do a really poor job of separating fact from opinion. That's bad. That's 66%. Right? This is like, and that's, you know, it was only 42% in 1984. So this is getting worse. There was a really great study that I'm gonna get into in a little bit here. But basically, you know, trustworthiness and credibility are not inherent, or objective features in the news media, they're products of news user's perception. So this is where it's important that we're, we're thinking about how people how the media is being perceived, and then how do we change that perception as a society? So, you know, we've had issues with over the past years of democratic societies in general and journalism, specifically that have had this big debate about, you know, whether they can trust the news media and substantial parts of their populations not limited to the US either, right? This has actually been an issue globally. And so the Internet has also created this high choice environment for news consumption, which is then challenged traditional news media's prerogative to report, interpret and comment on political as well as society issues, which is then giving rise to these alternative news sources, which is something that I'm sure a lot of people on the webinar today are very familiar with. And, you know, it's good and bad, right? It provides more opportunities for us as publicists, but it's also, you know, fragments, everything. So right, it

Ronjini Joshua  11:41

makes it more much more confusing.

11:43

Yeah. Much worse. Yeah, that's right. And then where's the audience? Where's the target target? I

Ronjini Joshua  11:48

mean, in one of these, it had the virus like the word virus in the news. And it's funny, because my husband and I were just so conflicted of like, where are we going to get our news? This was early in COVID. Where are we gonna get our news about this? That's, like, trustworthy, and that we can depend on and what we ended up doing, which is like kind of crazy. We had to stop after a couple months. But every day, we would look at the CDC, like official report, because we felt like that was the only credible piece of paper that we could find that would show us what the status of the virus was. But it's that kind of thing is like crazy rabbit hole stuff, right, like, so

12:26

you're likely.

Ronjini Joshua  12:28

We're not interpreting it. We're not doctors, like, we just really had nowhere to go. It was very puzzling. And I can only imagine, that's me, somebody who worked with the media all the time. I imagine, like a lot of people who don't understand the media, what they're doing, what they're going, what they're thinking about what's going on. I mean, no wonder everyone's in a mental crisis right now. For

12:49

sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, so and then the other issue that sort of fueling this idea of independent news sources, is this growing concern over censorship, right, which is sort of in the title, and that's obviously something that we talked about on the podcast as well. Yeah. So I mean, this is this has become. There's a new study from the Media Research Center that showed the broadcast news networks recently favored stories about censorship over free speech. So for example, there was the report that you know, several incidences of major tech platforms like Facebook and Google and YouTube and they were limiting and censoring information regarding these have been 19 relic posts. And most notably, in September that the company stepped up its efforts to limit and ban videos that spread quote misinformation, right regarding COVID-19 vaccine. Yep. And so basically, what this study said is that there was an increase center the the the increase censorship received positive news coverage, on broadcasts, evening news. So pro censorship stories and mentions outnumber those supporting free speech 12 to zero 12 Zero on evening news networks. And there was a lot of it that focused on this like network support for the push to restrain Coronavirus contract. So it was

Ronjini Joshua  14:17

easy. Do people just I mean, is it because of the comfort level you think that the audience feels like controlling the message? I

14:25

think that has to be what it is, is that they are assuming but I think they might be wrongly assuming this right? I don't know that the audience because I think what we're seeing here is that people are not trusting the censorship of information. But yet there's somehow this disconnect, right? Where it's like, we're pro censorship instead of pro free speech, and I don't know quite when that happened. Like when did that become a tenant of American freedom? You know, I don't I don't know when that interest was society as an acceptable norm?

Ronjini Joshua  15:02

Well, the cannabis, I mean, the cannabis industry is like these perfect examples of both. I mean, we've been doing some work in cannabis and like, you know, obviously people, if you're in cannabis, or if you've heard of it, people are getting banned off of Instagram for posting certain things. And a lot of media outlets won't even touch the topic until it's federally legal. So it's like, you see that, but it's just, it's just a plant, you can't talk about it like this is it's really interesting. And then people are getting, you know, I think this is another thing that is quite worrisome for me, especially in the censorship of the media is, is it really a money thing? Is it? Is it all about how much money you're making? Or not making? Or, you know, rather than freedom of speech was what you're talking about here? Right?

15:48

And that's, and that's right. And that's where people get worried, too. And obviously, people are worried about, you know, is are the pharma companies, the one that are driving all the information? Because they're the ones that are financially benefiting? Right? And so therefore, do we trust the information that's coming through? That's being censored? That's not being censored? Or is it driven by the market forces of Big Pharma, which obviously is like the richest, you know, industry in the world? So yeah,

Ronjini Joshua  16:15

yeah, I don't. Yeah, it's really, I think people don't realize what a thin line it is to walk. And, you know, it's this conversation is specifically interesting. I mean, because mostly because we're pitching stuff every day. And a lot of times, I would say maybe the first 10 years of me being a PR person, like really think about if someone's reviewing my pitch and seeing if it's appropriate, or if they're, you know, censoring it because of the type of company I'm working for, or because whatever. I mean, I never really thought about that. And now, it's like, sometimes I'm like, wait a minute, why would this be rejected? This is like a really good informed piece of information people should have, like, there's no reason that we shouldn't talk about it. And it's, it's you don't like it takes a minute to sink in to think that we're actually manipulating the news?

17:09

No, it's kind of terrifying. We actually had a client recently who was doing antibody testing, before it was, you know, very widely used. And it was viewed as anti Vax, even though their position was not antivax. Because there was this extra element where it's like, they were calling out the fact that people that were fully vaccinated were not actually 100% full of antibodies, right. And so they were saying, to do risk aversion, you need to make sure that you're actually also ensuring that antibodies are present even after you've gotten the vaccine. And that's the that's the like the yardstick we should be using to measure whether people are safe. And then it was completely rejected because it flew in the face of the ongoing narrative about the vaccine, even though the company itself was not antivax. So it was like, Oh, my God, and we couldn't I mean, we could not break through because no reporter wanted to touch it, because it was like kryptonite.

Ronjini Joshua  18:11

I mean, these are these are things that you will have to consider, like, what are the conciliator and ciliary things that are gonna affect your story? And sometimes we don't have any control over that, right?

18:20

No, not really, I mean, you can try to fit into the context. But if your client is going against the grain of the of the, whatever the accepted narrative of the moment is, God help you, you know. And that's a problem, because we're trying to help get information out that people need to have and in the case of the antibody testing was like, this is information people should have, they should know that.

Ronjini Joshua  18:51

This is this is actually great, I think, point to kind of resonate on Allah or dig into a little bit how, as a PR person, and I mean, I have some thoughts, but like, how was a PR person? Do you take the next step to continue to spread that information? That education like how do you what is the next step as as in a PR program or communications program? What do you do for those people?

19:16

Well, then I think you have to find the reporters that are actually willing to circumvent the accepted narrative. And that's where I think things like sub stacks, which we're going to get into in a minute, actually come into play because you have to find somebody that's willing to step outside of whatever the what's comfortable, yeah, what's comfortable or even the outlet, right, because in some cases, those outlets are not going to let that information through because they have people they're beholden to. Right that what are you going to do if the owners of the outlet Yeah, are being paid for and bought sold by big pharma that has xy z agenda. Right? Right. How in the world do you get around getting the information out? So then I think you have to look for reporters and freelancers and substack writers and, you know, people that are actually like, willing to step outside of the of that mainstream narrative and be bold and like, yeah, no, I

Ronjini Joshua  20:22

love that. That's a great, um, you know, I'm, I'm gonna wait now until you get to that point.

20:29

Just to put a bow on this particular study. So they also found that of the other 20% of evening, network news broadcaster is that we're covering big tech censorship, 315 or neutral, but zero, none. Zilch. None of the stories took a pro free speech position. And this is coming from the free speech America analysis of ABC, CBS and NBC evening news coverage of the third quarter news coverage. So it's, it's interesting. Let's put it that way. And then the same, Senator, the Media Research Center, reported similar outcomes in April and July grading the tech giants including Google, Facebook, Amazon, Twitter, YouTube, tick tock with D or F grade hikes. All rights to free speech. So currently, free speech has gone out the window and everyone's pro censorship. I don't know. But you can, but you

Ronjini Joshua  21:23

can post a dance.

21:28

I don't know when this happened. I don't know when that's happened. But yeah, you can post a dance, but you can't you can't post anything that, uh, that's misinformation. So anyway, Against this backdrop, again, just to bring it full circle, it's like it's no surprise, right that more than nine and 10 of Republicans say they've personally lost trust in the news media in recent years. And obviously, it's not just Republicans, but but there's still an issue here with with that side of the equation, feeling especially disenfranchised by the media. So you know, a lot of these news and social outlets are then the oops, sorry, I skipped on accident. Here we go. So there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of right wing, they're calling them right wing. I don't know if that's even PC. But let's say there's a bunch of new alternative news sources, social apps, etc, that are being created to circumvent what they see as being this increasingly liberal internet and media ecosystem, right. So there's the daily wire and there's movie network, and there's Blaze TV and parlor and Newsmax TV, and on and cloud hub, and rumble and like they're all rising up to sort of fill in this what they see as a vacuum and the the existing system. And obviously, they're designed to push back against what they think is censorship or canceled culture and that kind of thing. Why is this being so sticky? Here we go. Okay, so this is where we're getting the sub stacks, which we which we, we talked about for a second here. Yeah. So some of what's happening also is that there's a further fractionalization of new sources that's been accelerated over the last year because there's been this rise of substack newsletters. And then there's other independent newsletters following in the footsteps of substack that are rising up as well. So

Ronjini Joshua  23:24

if anybody ever sent email is dead boy, were they wrong?

23:29

Totally. Yeah. So for those who don't know, uh, basically, instead of, you know, subscribing to a newspaper or a magazine, now, you can actually pay directly for newsletter that's produced by your favorite writer. So you some of them are free, some of them are $5 a month, some of our $10 a month. But basically, it's creating this industry, where writers with a following can drive really big numbers with their creativity and their reporting. Some of these reporters are making millions of dollars and I'm not exaggerating. Wow. So they went from being journalists who were like, you know, starving artists style, you know, reporters to actually if they had a follow if they'd have a following now, they're actually able to make unlimited money basically.

Ronjini Joshua  24:18

But weren't weren't journalists, always the original influencers anyway, I mean, I think I think it's a deserving. I think that's a deserving group of, of media that should be getting I mean, influence like I was mentioning, like, there's people who are just dancing on Tik Tok that are making millions of dollars. I'd much rather give my money to media or journalists who's doing research to figure out what the like real stories are, you know, and and report the Real News. Yep,

24:45

definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, the New York Times recently wrote this, they said substack has captivated an anxious industry, because it embodies larger forces and contradictions. For one the new media economy promises both to make some writers rich and turn others into content creation equivalent of Uber drivers, even as journalists turned increasingly to labor unions to level up pay scales. So, you know, as publicists, what is our opportunity here? Well, first of all, substack has promised no ads ever. So that leads an opportunity for us to, you know, connect with these audiences through popular writers. And I have to point out here that this is actually I mean, we're talking about this mushrooming, it was 250,000 subscriptions last November, it's now more than a million. Wow. So it is like booming as a as a as a platform. In addition to that, what's interesting is that a lot of traditional media outlets are trying to get out on the trends. So they want to be part of the Atlantic has won the New York Times has won these independent newspaper platforms that they're launching in response to this growing population.

Ronjini Joshua  25:59

How can they really be independent, though? Like, are they really it's just you're piggybacking on a trend and trying to take it back, you're drying, take it back,

26:08

basically, that's what I find a little bit funny, because it's very me too. It's like, you know, these are like punk rockers who are doing their own thing and not on a label. And then it's suddenly like, you know, a music label that's then trying to launch their own independent, you know, indie label. Okay, I don't know if that's gonna work. But, uh, but they're trying. Yeah, so yeah, so more power to him? I think in general, for me, what really is, you know, the thing that I'm most concerned about is how do we reunite the country? Because I feel like there's become these echo chambers within the media? And how are we going to regain the populations trust in the media in a in a cohesive way where we're all getting information from similar sources, right, this is this is like a very big issue in terms of our democracy is one

Ronjini Joshua  27:08

of the most immediate examples that I could really think of, and obviously, completely, like, self serving, totally different. But like, because we work in consumer tech, so much holiday gift guides are like the perfect example. I know, it sounds kind of funny, but like, in the past, you know, we're these are, these are entertainment stories. These are like what to buy, right? This is like diving into consumerism. But now we can't even get cool products and holiday gift guides, unless you have some kind of affiliate program, or some kind of connection with the brand where they're gonna get a kickback on money. I mean, everyone is so focused on the money part of the story, which, which makes sense, that's totally fine. But, but like, doesn't that take away from what we organically thought was fun journalism. And I think I think of consumer tech holiday gift guides. It's fun journalism, right? Like, this is like fun stuff to watch. But you can't even do that anymore.

28:08

Right? Yeah, no, and if you're not right, if you're not on those affiliate programs, you're not even gonna get considered. Oh,

Ronjini Joshua  28:15

no. Yeah. Like, I mean, Business Insider is a great example. And there's a lot of publications like that wire cutter. I mean, everyone has some kind of thing where you have to, and if not, you're like, immediately cut off. That's it. You don't even have a chance. Yeah. It's really interesting to hear that from the reporters to is like, sorry, we can't take you like, okay.

28:37

Yeah, no, it mean, it's definitely a blurring of the line between earned media and paid media. Right. And and I think it's, I mean, the concern that I have is that it's just going to be a further decline of the credibility of the media, because I mean, we know as publicists what's happening behind the scenes, but it's a matter of time before people that are regular citizens, you know, understand as well, that those gift guides that they're looking at, are actually influenced by advertising. Yeah, money. Yeah, money. It's money. It's still money. It's not actually, you know, these are the best. The dishwashers for 2020. This, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, because you want to know, as a consumer, I mean, I do right, when I go to shop for things. What was actually high, highly rated and what was, you know, but it's, it's sort of like falling on the shoulders of Consumer Reports. And then everyone else you just know, it's, you're being sold to? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No. So. So in this study that I referenced earlier, they have these four dimensions of journalistic selectivity that influenced the credibility. And so one is, you know, trust in the selectivity of the topics that you're choosing to write about. One is trust in the selectivity of the facts. facts that you're choosing to to include in those stories. One is the trust and the accuracy of the depictions. And then the other one is trust in the journalistic assessment, so related to the classification and weighing of what information was included or not included or communicated. So I think, you know, there's, obviously people have been studying this, which is a relief to me in a way because it was like, Okay, I want to know that people are trying to figure this out somebody's

Ronjini Joshua  30:32

What's that? Somebody's worried about it? Somebody

30:34

at least, right? Yes, exactly. And I mentioned this earlier, but they also found in this study that basically, you know, like, there was a lack of trust in specific and specific news outlets, but also just in general, and the domestic and international systems as a whole. So it's not Is this a widespread thing, this isn't one news outlet that's got a bad reputation. This is a this is a, you know, a massive issue. What was also interesting to me in this study is that the news organizations history, longevity, or reputation, or legacy was not actually frequently cited as a key trust factor. So people didn't care if it was the New York Times. Yeah. And they had, you know, a bunch of awards or whatever. They didn't, nobody cared whether it had awards, whether it had some great history, nothing like that it was that was mostly irrelevant in terms of whether people trusted the outlet, which I found interesting. Yeah. And then they said that 64% rated a news organization. clearly distinguishing news stories from commentary analysis, or advertising, advertiser paid content is very important in their trust. And I think this is really important for us to keep in mind as as you know, publicists and journalists and businesses, because what they're saying here is that there's, there's this blurring of the line between news stories, and then this opinion. And I think I've seen that even recently, I don't know if you feel this way, as well. But I feel like a lot of the news that I'm seeing has a very hard slant. And it's like, it's more like PR writing in my mind than journalism, because it has a lot of packs a punch of like a real opinion and a real angle and a real point of view. And I feel like the news is not meant to do that. And I feel like there's because I think part of the issue with people not trusting the media is that there's this blurring of the line between the reporting of facts and this commentary.

Ronjini Joshua  33:01

Well, and I like what I liked what this statistic is saying, too, I agree with this. I agree that like maybe you don't care so much. You're not you don't not trust somebody who clearly labels what's going on. You don't I mean, there's clear labels, you're not drinking Kool Aid, you know, out of the, like, 70 D cup or something like that, you know, like, you know, what you're getting, and I think in that way that builds trust, because, you know, okay, fine. I'm reading this advertiser paid content, but at least I know that it's paid by an advertiser, and if I choose to accept or believe it, that's my, that's my prerogative. So it's giving the power back to the reader and the viewer. That's right. Yeah.

33:44

Yeah. So um, so I found that were one of the interesting, um, basically, the other thing that they discovered in this reboot was a very, very long report, I'm trying to distill it, but it was, it was quite boring, and it took hours to go through. So anyway, but they also found that that basically, when trust is lost, that the journalists need to give their opera, their audience a chance to check whether their reporting was accurate. So if the audiences can verify information that was provided by the news media, then they start to trust them again. And this is going to come up again in a little bit. But you know, basically, the point here is that the more that the media shows the the behind the scenes facts and statistics and things like that, that they're including, the more that the readers feel confident that they can verify it. And I think that goes back again to this idea of like, you want, you want to respect to the readers, that they can interpret the information you're presenting without you putting your hand prints and color and opinion. And, you know, I think people feel I think part of what's happening is people are feeling, too Hawk down to, because they're being told what to believe. And I think people want to be respected as readers to say, I, I'm an intelligent person who can interpret what you're presenting to me without you telling me how to feel about it. Right, right. And I think part of what's happening is that people are starting to lose trust, because they feel talked down to through this over opinionated presentation. Yeah, so that makes sense. For sure. I'm sorry. Why is this keeps doing this to me? There we go. Okay, so the credibility of a news story is perceived as higher. When a story has one of three things or all three scientific sources, statistical information, or a visualization of the system, statistical information, can I say this visualization of statistical information? I didn't. So I think that this is also an important point, because as publicists, we want to make sure that to help the media with their credibility, and even the perceived credibility of those stories that we're providing this kind of information, right.

Ronjini Joshua  36:15

Yeah. And I think I think it's even more important that like, now we're doing a lot of like, byline and contributed articles and things like that, for for when people see that it's by a brand, that if you can, if we could also include all these three elements, then we can be perceived as trustworthy. So that's I this is a very important slide. screenshot this guy's Thank you.

36:42

Awesome. Um, okay. So there is a little bit of a dilemma here, which is that they also discovered that, while including this kind of extra detail, increases the credibility, it also makes new stories harder to comprehend for large parts of the population, and also more demanding to consume. So there is a little bit of a like journalistic dilemma that is happening between trying to give people information, but also make things still easy to digest. Right, right. There is some good news. I know, this has been very doomsday ish, but 69% of US adults who have lost trust in the news media over the past decade, they do say their trust can be restored, do need to point out however, this still means that 21% of all US adults say their trust in the media cannot be restored full stop. So specifically about 1/3, especially those in the political right, so they have permanently lost faith in the media. Wow. 1/3 of US adults,

Ronjini Joshua  37:48

that's a lot of people. So a lot of people that has a lot of where do they get their information, though?

37:54

Well, some of those are, you know, we went through some of those, like alternative, alternative media sources. Okay, sources. So I think I mean, there's I think they'll probably continue to be those rising up, unless there's a shift where things that are previously considered mainstream, are, you know, back to the point where people are trusting them, or do

Ronjini Joshua  38:19

you think maybe, I mean, I've seen this shift over the last maybe three years, three to five years. But do you think then the onus becomes on the brands, and the businesses and the companies to be more transparent? And, you know, obviously, like, you know, a lot of times when we create strategic communications programs, we're talking about educating your consumer. So like properly educating the consumer having a little bit more like authority and equity in what you're saying. And authenticity, to be able to say that things that are credible, right, like, like you said, like having supporting quotes, scientific facts, things like that. But it does not become the responsibility of the brands now.

39:07

I think so. Yes. And I think and I think a lot of it, and we'll see if we have time to get into this. But I mean, I think a lot of it is that brands in general need to be coherent within themselves. Right. So that's

Ronjini Joshua  39:21

a different

39:26

another rabbit hole. But But yes, but I think in general, yes, I think it's I think the onus is on I honestly, I think this is not necessarily something I don't want to point fingers at the news media, per se or even journalists. I think this is a society issue, which is why I think it's really important that we're talking about it today. Because it's, it's really, I mean, again, I'm gonna get into a little bit more of this, but I just feel like in general, how are we going to come together as a society if we can't agree on it? information that we're that we can verify collectively, that we're both you know that both sides of the party or people even the center feel like they can trust, they're getting information that's unbiased. And, you know, and fair, right. So so this is actually a great segue here. So we've got more than seven and 10. Say, these are the following things that are really important to them for trusting the media. So fairness, seven 8%, fact checking resources 74% commitment to transparency 71%, and then providing links to research and facts to backup reporting 71%. So these are, these are the factors that I think in general are really the most important to people in terms of trying to get trust back in the media. The other thing that I found interesting is that people said that they trusted news organizations less if the speed of reporting was prioritized over accuracy. And I know this is I mean, this has been an ages old question, but it's crazier and crazier in the digital world, right? Where people are just first to market I'm first the report. And I'm first to say it. And the problem with that is that the more that you push to say something before you had a chance to verify everything, and do it and do careful reporting, is then your accuracy suffers. And then your trust suffers, right. So you know, they also trusted outlets more than have a really visible and quick record of making corrections of mistakes. So they want to see that you're willing to say, you know, not hide it and pretend that it didn't happen. But they want to know, if you make a mistake, you're going to claim it. And you're going to make it a visible correction and not something you just try to sweep under the rug. Yeah, reputation

Ronjini Joshua  41:52

management 101. Right there.

41:57

That's right. People are also more distrusting of news organizations that do not acknowledge conflicts of interest. Oh, they want to, they want to know, who are your sponsors? Who owns you, right? Who are your advertisers, who are the people that are influencing what you're including in your coverage. And if you don't acknowledge those conflicts of interest, they don't trust you. The other thing that they said again, is, you know, this is this keeps coming up, but they want additional research publicly available. So they trust outlets that, for example, provide unedited interviews. So you can see for yourself, what happened behind the scenes, right. What was the full 60 Minutes interview? What was the full whatever interview? Right? Not just what were the snippets and the sound bites that you chose to, to pick ours? Yeah, cherry pick and turn into?

Ronjini Joshua  42:49

I'm gonna sound by this interview, it's gonna be great. Well, one of the questions got, if you're going, going back to that last slide that you had, yeah, one of the things is like, I think one thing that we experienced that a lot of people don't realize, and maybe they already think advertising influences editorial, and in some cases, I'm sure it does. But a lot of times, like I just did a huge. I just did a huge thing about advertising. Last week, it was a project big advertising project. And the advertising department does not talk to the editorial department like 0% In most cases. And so a lot of times, you know, like, I don't, I don't even they don't even know what's going on on the other side. And I hear I hear that happening all the time. Now, I don't know if they're just telling me that. But but most of the time, that's what I hear is that they're completely separate departments. And they don't know what the other, you know, what the right arm is doing the left arm doesn't know what the right arm is doing. And so like in this situation, like, you know, who's the person to identify those conflicts of interest?

44:00

That's a really good question. I mean, I guess it would have to be the publisher, right? That's, oh,

Ronjini Joshua  44:07

yeah. Yeah. Like, Hey, everyone, you should check if these people are in bed with an already.

44:14

Yeah, it's interesting, me thing that that came up, which I think is up in a minute here. I mean, the other thing that I think is coloring a lot of people's trust or distrust of the media is also that there's unfortunately too many opinion leaders that are associated with those outlets that have partisan or leanings or biases or whatever. And so there's this unfortunately, there's a blurring of again, okay, this outlet is represents this kind of partisan leaning, because they have these thought leaders that are attracting people and you know, these opinion leaders and things like that that are that are very Oh, cool and common commentators and things like that. So I think the other issue that's happened is that there's this problem of people that are matte light, like lightning rods when I'm trying to say, right, like, yeah, those big personalities that have lots of opinions that have a lot of partisan color. And then that is then making people just trust news, because it's all in the same big soup. Yeah, you know, you don't have an outlet that's devoted to opinion and then an outlet this devoted to news, you have both. So then,

Ronjini Joshua  45:34

would you make that decision? Yeah, yeah.

45:38

So it's an it's an issue. So this study says, To regain trust in the media, IT organizations are gonna be required to do the following. So number one, rigorously adhere to journalistic norms. This has become really challenging in an era where staff and resources have been washed, obviously. So this is, this is a big issue. This is what I was just bringing up, be careful not to be branded by opinion leaders as liberal or conservative, which can turn off these large segments of the population and damage their trust in the overall outlet. disclose the conflicts of interest, like we were talking about before, and then make additional reporting material and unedited interviews available to readers and viewers. So hopefully, these four things are, you know, something that is going to help get the the media back on, on its footing, get the

Ronjini Joshua  46:31

behind the scenes footage here. That's

46:33

right. That's right. So in general, I was going to get into a lot more of the sort of the, like trust building techniques in business and how they would apply to journalism. But I think in the interest of time, because I'm looking at the clock here, I'm going to sort of I'm going to fly through some of these slides here. And get us to, to the meat of it. So when I

Ronjini Joshua  46:59

saw Stephen Covey and the Dalai Lama were missing their wise advice. Now I

47:03

know I'm sorry, it's I didn't, I didn't know it would be interactive. So I was prepared for like just being out on a limb by myself, but I'm so glad that I haven't been. So thank you for making this engaging. But let me just skip ahead. So they're basically just to give the, the sort of really quick version. So there are 13 behaviors that build trust. Okay, I'm gonna skip ahead to what those are. And then I'm going to skip ahead, even though I've completely cut out unfortunately, like, you know, this, this, how this happens, but do listen to Stephen Covey's book, which is absolutely amazing. But anyway, so let's, let's just sort of skip through to the, to the, to the 13 things, and then I'm going to talk because I jumped then from there to how to actually build trust in the media, okay, based on those 13 behaviors. So just one moment, sorry, you're gonna see how many crazy slides I did. I'd warned that this

Ronjini Joshua  48:05

was perfect. If someone wants to slow it down in slow motion, they can get the whole thing. We're

48:12

almost there. I promise. It's, it's like it's almost there. We're almost there's 13. There it is. There it is. Okay, so we are to, here we go. All right, bringing it full circle. So these are the behaviors that build trust in general, right, if you're, whether you're a business or you're an individual or your business leader, talking straight number one, demonstrating respect, creating transparency, righting wrongs, I like that one. Showing loyalty, delivering results, getting better, confronting reality, clarifying expectations, practicing accountability, listening first, before speaking, keeping commitments and extending trust to other people. So basically, if you apply those 13 behaviors to the media, and what I have done in the next few slides here that we're going to skip ahead to so um, maybe someday we can do the full the full presentation. But but for now, basically talk straight right so what would that mean in terms of the media will be neutral? be unbiased in your tone, right? Distinguish news stories from commentary from analysis from advertiser paid content, be objective, right? Move away from this idea of narratives and interpretations and anecdotal examples and all of that kind of stuff. Use simple language call things what they are, demonstrate your integrity, don't manipulate people or distort the facts right? There's a lot of like, spinning of the truth. And

Ronjini Joshua  50:02

you know, it's what's funny is because I think how this has become a snowball, I think it was it started like this and one person took a little bit of liberty, and then everything else snowballed from there. So they're like, oh, I can push this part of it. So maybe I could push this other part of it. And so I think that's what's happened, and we just need to dial it back. But you really have to be like, be objective and neutral. Those seem to be like, really the core tenants of like, you can't put your opinion or feelings into it.

50:37

That's right. No, and I mean, I, you know, even as a journalism student, I, I don't know how I got from what I learned in college. And I've been updating myself because I feel very old thinking about, you know, 1996, or whatever was like, but like, what, what, how did it go from there to? It's factually accurate, but relieving false impressions and or like, yeah, a lot of like, opinion and thoughts about the I don't, I don't know how it went from being the watchdog of society that reports facts to, to this thing that it is. Right, right. Yeah. How did we go? I don't know how we got there. Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua  51:17

there's little, tiny little liberties that you make, turned into a huge snowball here. Right?

51:23

That's right. So the second quality of building trust is demonstrating respect. And I think, again, you know, this is what we were talking about a little bit earlier, like, I think you'd have to make the additional research publicly available, and trust the readers that they're going to be able to interpret that right. I don't think you want to treat readers like they need you to handhold through every single thing that you're presenting with that. If I feel like it then treats them like they're unintelligent, or they're incapable of correcting correctly interpreting the information that's presented. And I just don't think that builds trust, right. Number three, create transparency. So you have to tell the truth in a way people can verify. I think it also means you have to avoid censorship of news information, statistics and opinions, honestly, right. I think you have to actually be transparent, provide the information, let people decide for themselves, provide the scientific sources, the statistics, the visualizations, yeah, you know, reveal all those conflicts of interest about

Ronjini Joshua  52:31

I think, I think the problem here is people don't realize that there's a lot of opinion, weaved into things. Maybe they believe them to be facts and not opinions. So it's really the responsible responsibility of the reporter, or the journalist or the news giver, whoever that is

52:52

the outlet. Yeah, yeah, to do that. Because,

Ronjini Joshua  52:55

I mean, sometimes the audience can only see what they see. Maybe they don't even realize that it's opinion, or they can't, you know, I mean, sometimes I don't know, I'm like we did. Are they telling me that? Are they asking me that? You know, it's like, you can't really make that delineation sometimes. Yeah,

53:11

I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And it's an issue for the, you know, people trusting the media, right, I'm writing right wrongs. This is, you know, obviously, making quick and visible corrections, making sure that you're, you write things when you're wrong, you apologize quickly, you know. And I think in general, it also means not letting like the pride or the profits get in the way of reporting the truth. Yeah. So if something needs to be reported, and you know, it's, it flies in the face of your advertisers. You're not, you're not going to have anybody's trust, if you decide to err on the side of, you know, yeah. pleasing your advertisers, nobody's gonna trust your product. And then the problem is that, okay, great. Well, you please your advertisers, but now your viewers, or your readers no longer trust you. So your quality of your product has gone in the toilet, and then

Ronjini Joshua  54:08

and then they're gonna advertise and then they'll go your advertisers,

54:11

right. So it's like, you have to, you know, prioritize, yeah, you know, providing content that's actually providing plain facts over this, like, the ratings and the buzz and the, you know, sensational headlines and all that stuff, right? show loyalty is the fifth quality of building trust. So I think you have to show loyalty to readers and journalists, you have to give the credit to the journalists, I think you have to represent readers who aren't there to speak for themselves. And I think in general, like, people need to dial in the negative opinions about people in general. Because the more that you have, I mean, I think part of the issue is there was so much negative opinion about Donald Trump in the news that then the Republicans now no longer trust in you Use because it was just, you know, there's so much emotional content, right? So in general, the news also just, it's to dial it back on, like negative opinions about people in general, and make sure that they're only publishing information that is actually providing, you know, the data and details and statistics and information and things that people need to have to make their own judgment valid.

Ronjini Joshua  55:28

Right, right. You're not You're not paid to be judgers, which we can all do on our own anyway. That's

55:34

right. No, we're very good at that. Everyone's very good at that. delivering results is number six, in terms of equality that builds trust. So again, I think, you know, rigorously adhering to those journalistic norms, having a track record of unbiased, factually accurate information, and making sure that you're performing that duty for the US public that you're expected to do as the watchdog of society, right. And then obviously, prioritizing accuracy over speed, which is something that we got into before, get better. So get better in general, just means you're continuously improving, right? You're as a business as a leader, whoever is a person. So I think in general, the media just needs to be developing these feedback systems for how can we become better? How can we report the news better? How can we get more accurate? How can we get, you know, more trust from people in the accuracy of how we're presenting the information and things like that? So think, you know that that's kind of a, a be a Constant Learner, learning for everyone, but for the media to confronting reality thing is important, right? Like you have to take on these issues head on, and make sure that you're addressing the tough feedback and criticism, and I feel like that is

Ronjini Joshua  57:00

a lesson on self improvement and almost like,

57:04

well, it is a really in the end it is right. Yeah. And and, you know, I mean, to that point, it's like, there is a macro, and a micro so, you know, be the change, you want to be in the world. Right? And that's, so you have to do it as a person, then you have to do as a brand. Yeah. And then you have to do it as a society. So I think what we're looking at, I mean, to your point, which is a good one is like, you know, there is a there's an issue here where we all have a part to play. Yes, you know, even as individuals, so confronting reality, clarifying expectations, so this is like, once again, distinguish the news coverage from opinion piece. Yeah, don't let everything become one big soup, practice accountability, right, you got to make sure that you're actually holding your news outlet accountable first. And that you're taking responsibility for the results, good or bad. And you're, you know, you're the one that's on the line here. 11 is listening first. So this is where you know, a good leader, good person, or somebody that inspires trust, listens to people before they speak. And they listen to people genuinely before making a decision or presenting an opinion. And so I think, you know, this is another example where if the media is able to figure out what it is that a dressers want, that readers want addressed, then they can actually, you know, diagnose what is going to be valuable information to them and provide it accordingly. Keeping commitments is another one, right? So do what you say you're going to do, make all those commitments, implicit, explicit. And then the last one, because I know we're up at time here is extending trust. So I think again, start with that propensity to trust your readers, right? And trust that they're going to be intelligent and able to interpret information and facts for themselves without this strong arming them into like, your opinions and interpretations and colorations and, you know, opinions about everything. So I think that that's I think that's the last quality that we need in the media. And obviously in ourselves. Yes,

Ronjini Joshua  59:23

yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is like such a, I mean, this is like it is 100 You know, page presentation because it's it's there's so many different elements that have one made it you know, made it a way where we don't trust the media and then now to go back and like undo all the bad habits we have, you know, to repair ourselves. I think it is a bit of a long process. What do you think, you know, we're going into a new year I cannot believe it,

59:54

like it. Like here already.

Ronjini Joshua  59:57

I can't believe it. Nuts, but the me media landscape so volatile, I don't feel comfortable with it. What do you think the shift is going to look like in the new year? And you mentioned substack, and some Altair, like, like kind of alt media outlets, and we're gonna see maybe a little bit more than Java, what are some of the trends that you think are going to come out of this distrust? And do you think, how long do you think? And do you think we can like go back?

1:00:27

So I think, in general, that the market forces are, I'm hopeful are going to help correct some of this, I think substack is a great example of it. Because you're seeing people that are willing to put their dollar, you know, behind what they believe in. So if they trust, if they trust Glenn Greenwald, right, and they, and they believe in his reporting, and they think it's independent, and they feel like it's factually accurate and helpful to them, and, you know, provides the information they need, they're going to pay for it. So my hope is that it will turn into a situation where people are paying for things that they trust. Yeah. And that that those market forces will then kind of self correct. That might be a little pollyannish, because obviously, you've got all these big corporations that own these big media outlets that are going to have lots of influence, right. But I think in general, we're going to see just a continued fractionalization of the media. I think, podcasts are another good example of this happening, right, where you've just got podcasts coming up left, like every single tiny niche, you know, that anyone could ever want to hear about, there's a podcast for it. So in a way, that's valuable, because then you know, even if it's a smaller listenership that the people that you're getting in front of are the right people. Right. Right. So there's still a way of doing that. I think that, you know, it's, I think it's going to take a while though, for a lot of these market forces us to, to iron themselves out. And I think there's going to be a lot of competition. Even among the alt right, you know, there's going to be all these different social platforms that are cannibalizing each other and things like that, until there's some, some leveling out of have a brand that people trust. But I think it

Ronjini Joshua  1:02:27

sounds kind of like, you know, and I feel like journalists have always been influencers, we just didn't really see them that way. But I think that like the the journalists that are willing to stand up, they're almost becoming activists. And so like, do you think we're gonna see, like, this era of like, just extreme journalism activism? Because, you know, you are becoming, they're becoming influencers in their own right, they're launching their own platforms? And, and that becomes something that takes over media to for a little while, maybe? Probably, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I'm just thinking of, like, when we were, well, when I was young, and like, you know, you really trusted like Barbara Walters, you really like waiting, like, my mom was like, huge, 2020 fan. And like, every Friday, we would sit there and watch whatever, 2020 episode and you're like, trusting Barbara to get that story. And I feel like a lot of people have that kind of similar faith and like Oprah and like other, you know, I'm only naming women because that's all I could think of right now. But, but there's

1:03:36

that. Fair enough.

Ronjini Joshua  1:03:38

Yeah, there's that like, you know, the trust that we once built with those types of influencers and those types of media and journalists, that I think sounds like kind of from this is like they're gonna kind of rise up again until the media can repair itself.

1:03:54

I think so. I think that's what's gonna happen. Yeah, I think I think I mean, I think I mean, not to beat a dead horse here. But the substack writers are a great example of it, right? Because they're the ones that are kind of leading the charge, and they've got they've got these big followings, and, you know, they're able to attract a pretty big audience, and then those people are willing to pay for it. So I think that my hope is also, I mean, what I like about that is that journalists can also have a chance to benefit financially, whereas in the past, they've been, they've been pretty low on the totem pole. Yeah. Yeah. So suddenly, you know, if you're a good reporter, and you've got, you know, great, great reporting, great facts, great stories, and people trust what you're putting out there. You can make a really good profit now. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have to market yourself because suddenly you're now your own outlet. Yeah, that's that's the challenge. I think for people that don't have a big following But I think you know, I mean, my hope is that people will be financially rewarded for doing good radicalism. Yeah. And then that good journalism will prevail. So that's my, again, I'm hopeful. It's not just rose colored glasses, because I feel like we need that as a society to come together. So we don't have this echo chamber of these two Americas that are listening to completely different sources of information and news and how do you ever come together as a society when that's happening? So it's not that we need somebody from on high tell everyone to trust and listen to but we do need sources of information that we feel like we can actually get, or

Ronjini Joshua  1:05:47

at least to agree on, like a few tenants like these 13 tenants, right? Like, let's let's all agree that we're going to stick to this stuff, this practice, you know, like these best practices? Yeah. Yeah, no, this is a awesome conversation. I think it's something that everyone should be thinking about. Whether they're producing their own content, whether they're trusting the media, whether they're partnering with media, and journalists, I think this is a great way to kick off our series. And I think, you know, if you guys want to slow it down and go through the power of you'll definitely be able to see it, but you know, connect with April on LinkedIn, or social media. And I think this is a little bit of a journey, but it's a good conversation to start having. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

1:06:36

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Ronjini Joshua  1:06:40

Yeah. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. And hopefully, we'll see you guys tomorrow in our next webinar. And that's it for today. Bye bye.


Keywords:
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