Ep 158 - What is ZenBuds? Jon Hacker w/ NeurGear, Insights To Reducing Stress & Improving Wellness

We're all feeling a bit stressed out this time of the year - taxes, work, kids, and so much more... 

That's where ZenBuds by NeurGear come into the spotlight.  A wearable device that activates your vagus nerve to help provide stress relief and improved wellness.  Ronjini Joshua interviews Jon Hacker, CEO with NeurGear to provide valuable insights about ZenBuds, and what he discovered during CES 2024 that took place a few weeks ago in Las Vegas. 

NeurGear’s Vision is to bridge the gap between technology and well-being, creating solutions that enhance everyday life.  When you remove all the worries and negative feelings around you, you will become more effective. In just 5 minutes, step into your daily life as a calmer, more centered version of yourself.

ZenBud, NeurGear's flagship product, is a first-of-its-kind auricular ultrasound vagus nerve stimulator. It's designed for ease of use and effectiveness in promoting relaxation and mental balance.
 
The NeurGear team comprises experts in bioengineering, technology, and wellness. Led by visionary founders and executives, the team is dedicated to developing solutions that positively impact mental well-being.  Be sure to visit their website for information and see how you can be part of this transformation.  ZenBud - Vagus Nerve Stimulation

Tune into this episode to learn what Jon discovered at CES, tips to marketing your crowdfunding campaign, and even more hot PR Tips.  Be sure to like & subscribe for our next episode. 


Additional Links To Visit:

Past News Releases:
https://zenbud.health/news/

FAQ Page:
https://zenbud.health/faq/

Instagram @zenbudhealth
Tiktok @zenbudhealth
Facebook Zenbudhealth
X: neurgear

Visit our website, The Silver Telegram, to see how we can help launch your next crowdfunding campaign and any other Public Relations support your tech business might need.   Let's get your 1:1 discovery called scheduled right away! 

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua: This is ronjini Joshua and you are tuned into the PR Playbook podcast. Today. We are continuing our startup Series where we're talking to John hacker near gear. If did I say that right John?

Jon Hacker: Yeah, that's right. Good.

Ronjini Joshua: A Perfect and New Year launched their kind of Flagship new product Zen buds at CES. So John welcome to the pr Playbook. Thanks for joining me.

Jon Hacker: Thank you for having me. So again,…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: just to give you guys some background on what the Zen bud is and what nerd we do at nerd year on. it's Stress Management and wearable. It's a headset that you put on and uses ultrasound to help you relax and be more calm within five minutes. We typically suggest that people use it consistently for stress resilience over time, which is where the real gold is. We had over 300 people come by the stand at CES and we had some really great responses. So we're very much looking forward to really getting this out there and having more people use and get ultrasonic relaxation and peace of mind.

Ronjini Joshua: I'd love to hear a little bit more about your background. You'd mentioned your background in. I think it's bioengineering. Is that right?

Jon Hacker: Biomedical engineering. Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: Biomedical engineering and obviously Wellness is becoming a huge topic mental health. All those things are really emerging this year. And there was a ton of Mental Health and Pack that was present at CES as well this year tell us a little bit more about the space kind of how you got involved into it.

Jon Hacker: For sure, and I mean, I would Trace back a lot of that growth and wellness technology. It's been going on for good number of years now, but covid really accelerated a lot of these products. anyways, so I've been really interested in this space for a while. The mind is a few places left in medicine that has real potential for Innovation. And I would Trace that personally how little we understand it and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: how important it is to everyday life. We all have mental health and we all have to manage it and I got to be honest with you. We're all pretty bad at So any assistance we can get there really is what's going to be pushing us for.

Ronjini Joshua: And then how did you guys end up coming up with this wearable device because I'm sure you've tested I'm guessing in the process of developing some Stress Management tool.

Jon Hacker: exactly

Ronjini Joshua: You probably tested out a ton of different options.

Jon Hacker: Yes, this has been a journey and a half and I won't bore you with the long details, but I'll give you a short overview.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: Originally. We were actually a transcranial ultrasound company. We were looking at particularly focus and increasing performance and learning and then we realized that there's already a lot of things out there that can help you do that and it's not really a market that needs Innovation right now is the best way I would say it you'll find 30 tools on the internet that'll help you do that and also 30 products on the market and a lot of times really just comes down to being less stress and being able to that is the best way to be focused and…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: that along with a couple other things with their technology really push just in this direction that we went. I don't know if I actually ever really went over how our product works and maybe we'll do that a little bit later but that ties into a little bit of why we went this direction the vagus nerve which is what we target is very very prime target for stress and stress relief, especially with ultrasound

Ronjini Joshua: One of the things we didn't talk about which we probably should have brought up earlier was do you have it with you?

Jon Hacker: I do have one with me. I'll need to go off camera a little bit to go grab it.

Ronjini Joshua: No worries. Go for it.

Jon Hacker: So you'll have to give me a moment.

Jon Hacker: And I actually have to say I was wrong with that. So typically I always have one right next to my desk and…

Ronjini Joshua: Okay.

Jon Hacker: I feel really bad about this almost I'm prepared.

Ronjini Joshua: That's okay. what we'll do I'm gonna start over and I'm gonna say do you have one with you? You can respond in any way and then what we'll do is we'll impose a picture of it a photo of it. Yeah, okay.

Jon Hacker: For That sounds great.

Ronjini Joshua: So I guess one thing that we forgot to discuss in our pre call was if you have a unit with you.

Jon Hacker: So I don't have one with me on hand. Typically, I always have one in my office because I like to use it. But we just got back from CES. So a lot more packed away and…

Ronjini Joshua: All…

Jon Hacker: we brought most array inventory with us.

Ronjini Joshua: I'll make sure our guy Ben. He's gonna put one on the screen for you guys. So you guys can see if you're watching the podcasts on YouTube. If you're listening. you're gonna have to watch the podcasts on YouTube or go to the website actually, right?

Jon Hacker: Yeah, we've got a lot of good product images on the website. They'll show you a little bit about the Zen bud and how it works on TV a little bit of a more spoken overview. it enters one ear like this you put it on and it's just a headset and…

00:05:00

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: that's all it needs to be and Spent a long time engineering it to make it. What I would say as normal as possible not something that's not overly intrusive that there's a lot of companies out there…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: where you'll see these really weird tech devices either they go on the neck or they're very obviously something like from a Sci-Fi show and some of our team joked around going that direction, but what people need is something that they can use in their daily lives. And so that's…

Ronjini Joshua: right So one of the big questions when we're talking to startups is really talking about…

Jon Hacker: what we built.

Ronjini Joshua: how your marketing these new products you and I had talked earlier and we actually talked about how you went to see es unveiled which is a great press event that's been happening for decades at CES and you can Meet the Press and kind of introduce them to your product. but you also mentioned on upcoming Kickstarter campaign. So can you tell me a little bit about your process of why you chose Kickstarter and any other ideas that you have in marketing this product moving forward?

Jon Hacker: So I think Kickstarter especially for products like this your product or may not fall into that Niche. That is a first thing and…

Ronjini Joshua: right yeah.

Jon Hacker: we had to take a lot of time to think about where we're going makes a lot of sense with that type of campaign and platform. Ours does and we've seen a lot of success in similar companies in the past that have launched on Kickstarter and then gone on to build consistent revenue streams and slowly grow their base. in particular though Kickstarter is the ultimate way, I would say to test product Market fit. And I point to actually probably move on a life would be a good company to point to here on their Kickstarter. They were quote Electronics pleasure. Essentially they would stimulate nerving your body and you'd feel pleasurable.

Jon Hacker: That was how they marketed it and they saw some success with that but it clearly didn't hit the market fit. They wanted because they actually innovated off of that and they went more into the Wellness space that this helps promote your Wellness on everyday life as time went on and without the experiences of the kickstarter. They wouldn't have had that real Market data at least not nearly as quickly on their success metrics.

Ronjini Joshua: I really like that you mentioned that because so as an agency we worked on many Kickstarter campaigns and Indiegogo and whatever crowdfunding campaigns that we've worked on and…

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: I think that's one thing that people often miss that one is your product to fit for the platform, which is what you addressed and

Ronjini Joshua: A second thing is really understanding what that platform's gonna do for you it may not like jump off like some of these other products have in the past. this may not be a five million dollar campaign. It could be a $5 campaign. It could be a $500,000 camera, obviously you want the best for your product but I think one of the things that people assume and we are going into crowdfunding is that we're gonna put it on Kickstarter. He started great. They're gonna choose this at the product they love and then it's gonna be gangbusters from there. But part of it is an experiment. Is that correct?

Jon Hacker: For sure, and I also note. just putting a product on Kickstarter and not putting in any extra work is a great way to have it go nowhere and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Hacker: I'm sure you're very familiar with this but there is a lot of work to running a successful Kickstarter that's behind the scenes Even if you have the best launch page in the world, if people don't know that it's there. They're not going to see it and they're not going to back your project.

Ronjini Joshua: Absolutely. I love what you guys are doing. I love this pilot program that you're running right now. So maybe you can give us a quick view of your pilot program. So people can understand what you're doing.

Jon Hacker: For sure, so there is a 750 dollar buy- into the program and essentially what you do. the unit will send you a unit all we ask is that you give us some feedback on your usage on and what you feel with it what you think of it? And that helps us get a lot of data so that we understand how to communicate this product other people both in our Kickstarter campaign and moving forward. It's kind of like a beta for the video game essentially except in Hardware.

Ronjini Joshua: And this is pretty much a production unit I mean, obviously now you're gonna have iterations based on feedback, but it's not a 3D printed unit or it's not a What is it called? I can't think of it right now, but not a…

Jon Hacker: minimum viable products I mean

Ronjini Joshua: You have not an MVP, but you have the word pilot in my brain where that other word should be. know what? I mean? it's not a sample. It's not pre-production.

00:10:00

Jon Hacker: No. no,…

Ronjini Joshua: It is actual …

Jon Hacker: these are units they work on and…

Ronjini Joshua: what something should look like. Okay.

Jon Hacker: part of what we like to say with the pilot this is your opportunity to be among the first people in the world to use these and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: what you're paying for with that 750 dollars is That early access so to speak to these units…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: because we are scaling production right now. And that's another reason why Kickstarter is great. Is it essentially can provide you Revenue ahead of time to build that inventory in those production lines,…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: but again you have to plan this out. You really can't just go at this half cocked and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: expect success.

Ronjini Joshua: How did you get into CES? I guess that that would be one question that I would ask you because not a lot of companies would go to CES this far in advance before their Kickstarter.

Jon Hacker: 

Ronjini Joshua: How did that all come about? your voice course

Jon Hacker: First off we applied that helped one of the big reasons that we want to go to CES. First off are CTO recommended it. They're absolutely wonderful.

Ronjini Joshua: mmm

Jon Hacker: They have a lot of experience. We're located in Rochester, which I like to call is codex Corps. So there's a lot of neat pickings and Stan was one of those he's absolutely lovely.

Ronjini Joshua: Okay.

Jon Hacker: But anyways, we chose to go to CES first off because it's a great way to meet the people that are going to help you move to the next stage. If you're in a business especially start up and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: you have something and it's ready to go to at least minor extent. You should go second is we were able to have over 300 people in the booth trying out these devices and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: that provide invaluable data what people were able to Use the device how they used it how they interacted with it major that's gold. And I mean we've had talked with over 500 people prior but having that uncensor short span also is a great durability test for these devices which by the way, none of them broke. They're all still good to…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: We built these things like tanks you pretty sure you could throw at the wall.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: You can submerge it. It's just gonna keep working on because we took durability really seriously. anyways, yeah, I would highly suggest Just make sure you bring some good sneakers.

Ronjini Joshua: I think that was a exactly comfortable shoes is always a win. I think that was just a great way to preview the product in a very successful way and then you had mentioned and I just saw that you would've gotten some coverage and in tech radar I would say the one thing that you guys might have missed and I don't know if you did something and media has been getting a little bit more difficult to read at some of these shows is tapping into that media list to get coverage and to get that, early excitement with the media to give them to stop by the booth and it's sometimes hard especially when you're a startup early stage,…

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: but you

Ronjini Joshua: Had units so that's why I'm like, that's kind of a missed opportunity. But I think you still have a really great opportunity because you have these pilot units, to potentially get not only customer feedback but maybe even media feedback before your Kickstarter campaign. And that's one thing that I always recommend for people that are going into Kickstarter is have some production ready units to sample with media review units what we call them so that they can give you feedback or that little gem of a quote, whatever their experience is, early on and then you guys have that for that Kickstarter Campaign, which is what you're collecting now with some of these Pilots, right?

Jon Hacker: For sure, I mean and a couple people have requested demos. we have emailed the mailing list though.

Ronjini Joshua: Okay.

Jon Hacker: Sadly more post posts see us and Prius CES. There's actually a couple other things if you're looking to go to prepare eight months in advance.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Hacker: Yeah is what I would suggest and the reason why I say that is there are a couple awards that we could have applied for if we applied for them like The Innovation Awards and…

Ronjini Joshua: right Yeah.

Jon Hacker: you just have to do those so far in advance. It's almost ridiculous, but you really have to know when you're going.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: Where are you going and why you're going at Time we were still early into very early development that time.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, but you're still pretty early. So I think because now you'll be qualified for the next year's Innovation Awards because you haven't technically launched. so you'll be hopefully hopefully I think yeah,…

Jon Hacker: Yes, potentially. We'll go for them. Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: and then there's a whole bunch of media awards that were kind of available. Yeah I agree but I think you probably got some really great visibility. I think you guys are doing this in a great way. tell us a little bit about I don't think yet when your Kickstarter campaign starting you so kind of pending but tell us about the kickstarter campaign and then the reservation that you had mentioned to me for your website for some of the units.

00:15:00

Jon Hacker: Of course, so we're still working out some of the final details on one exactly want to run this campaign. so I'm not gonna give any particular date yet. That being said we are currently doing reservations for units and this is also if you're doing a case to our do this where you put a dollar now Dom now and…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: you get $100 discount on the price that we run at the campaign in order to purchase a unit. The reason why we do this is because a paid list has closer to a 90% conversion rate versus a mailing list, which I believe is the flip side closer to a 10 for these type of campaigns.

Ronjini Joshua: Probably yeah.

Jon Hacker: So we are really excited to open that up and we do love it when people Reserve units on there because it helps us validate the idea even more and we're a company at this point so our Looked even more I'd say and also it helps us really start building up that list for Kickstarter you want again another thing that for kickstarters because we're going on this track is you do want to cover your entire expected amount in the first 24 hours.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: I've heard that over and over again from people for algorithm reasons like Okay,…

Ronjini Joshua: Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: Yes. Absolutely.

Jon Hacker: I'm sure you've talked about that plenty of times on this.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, you want to have your goal met? I mean you kind of basically want to know that you're gonna meet your goal before you even start the campaign. So that's the thing and then everything else is above and beyond and more like hype and excitement. Right? So this is I mean,…

Jon Hacker: Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: that's why I really love what you're telling me and how you guys are working this campaign because in this day in age of crowdfunding, it's no longer you don't have those unicorns anymore. what we had before where the watch would just go gangbusters and 50 seconds. You know what I mean? It doesn't crowdfunding doesn't work like that anymore…

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: because there's been too many people that have been burned by crowdfunding campaigns. What?

Ronjini Joshua: Guys is using in a really smart way for Market validation. You already have these pre-units so people can try it out or sorry pilot units. I like that term better and then you're already putting your brand into motion with getting some media covered with tech radar and some of these other outlets that are gonna really give you guys visibility before your campaign goes out so people kind of feel This is not like a totally brand new thing they've talked about it at They exhibited CES they have units if I want to buy one now I can buy for 750 but I'm gonna wait for the crowdfunding campaign. So it's I kind of like you're giving people a lot of visibility and options into your production process, which I think in today's crowdfunding is very crucial to a successful campaign. So you're doing all the right things. So that's good.

Jon Hacker: always glad to hear that.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, what are you hoping? are you guys gonna be kind of a Near gear is that gonna be a company that focuses on one product? Are you guys planning on what are your kind of long-term vision for this?

Jon Hacker: For sure before I do that by the way sinbud DO health znbd DOT health…

Ronjini Joshua: Okay.

Jon Hacker: if you want to serve your unit, please do now.

Ronjini Joshua: Yes, absolutely. We'll put all the links in the show notes and everything. But yes.

Jon Hacker: For sure, but yes plans for the future. Yes. So we're Wellness device. I do want to make that clear. We're not making medical claims with this right now though.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: We do have intentions and we're running active clinical trials to assess Effectiveness for post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety among other things and this type of technology has a lot of potential for it. It's not gonna be the same unit. You're going to see on the kickstarter. It's gonna be a lot more.

Ronjini Joshua: Sure.

Jon Hacker: But also call sophisticated because again if we're going to be going through the FDA process for anything, we are going to want to make sure we can make the most effective thing. we are handed in a little bit on a couple of things by being Wellness product right now. And moving that Avenue while continuing to sell on Wellness markets to make sure everyone has a chance to use this technology is really what I call the midterm vision of the company. It's going to take a while to get there.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, absolutely.

Jon Hacker: For sure.

Ronjini Joshua: I mean, I think Wellness technology adoption it's not there yet. So I think it's coming right?

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: So yeah, you have a little bit of ways but I mean, it's nice to know road map and kind of understanding how this Wellness just the industry where it's going. I think it's really interesting to see

Jon Hacker: I can actually talk a little bit on the industry. If you're interested.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, yeah, please.

Jon Hacker: I'm gonna first make it clear. These are my opinions based off of being in this industry because I'm sure some people are gonna get offended by them. But the biggest problem with the wellness right industry right now is the sheer amount of BS that's on the market.

Ronjini Joshua: Mm-hmm

Jon Hacker: There are so many companies that do no validation for the product. They don't even do real Consumer Testing what they do. Is it in front of people and say do you feel not? There are great psychological experiments to show if you put a sugar pill in someone's mouth and say do you feel like most people are going to say I feel X or…

00:20:00

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: not even a sugar pill you just hold a piece of plastic up to their skin. And when you don't make sure that your products working people lose trust and that's really the problem with the industry right now is that there is been a growing lack of trust in a lot of these wellness products for good reason.

Ronjini Joshua: Sure.

Jon Hacker: What we're doing in order to help counteract that is we are running our trials. We have done that research and we will continue to do so, but it really is the burden right now is on the consumer to tell the difference and it's hard because a lot of these websites will say clinically proven that just means a study has been conducted at some point the attorney of the Universe on a technology underlying their Tech science fact again,…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: it means the same thing. It doesn't mean that their Technologies ever been tested. It doesn't mean that's effective. It doesn't mean anything. And as long as that remains the case for this industry. You're going to see hindered growth rates because if you can't trust a product,…

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: how can you put up even $300 750 or thousand even more? In order to use the product for a car when you pay for a car, it's gonna drive places. There are regulations in place that says this car it was gonna let me get from point A to point B. Wellness device,…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: there is no such guarantee right now. And there are a couple Solutions in Industry.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: One of the ways is for companies to self-regulate like we are but frankly, there's only going to ever be able to do so much for trust. The other way is the government needs to step in here and…

Ronjini Joshua: Absolutely.

Jon Hacker: start regulating this industry. And I'd also say the supplement industry because since Both of them have products that do not. And in order to really help consumers differentiate. There needs to be a slime down. And that's gonna cost a lot of money.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: It's gonna take a lot of time and a lot of people's feelings are gonna get hurt but it has to happen. At least that's again.

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: That's my opinion. But if for an order to see real adoption and wellness Technologies trust must be established and the sad reality the matter is that there's been so many stake oil salesmen out there. Just drawing trust over and over again that it's gonna require some real elbow grease in order to reverse that.

Ronjini Joshua: what is your prediction of the time it's gonna take

Jon Hacker: So ic2 potential routes that the government will take along with and maybe a third potential route where the industry sorts itself out though. I find that the least likely first off for wellness and supplements the FDA could step in and It's in the area where they just are signed not to regulate it. So technically they do have the Congressional authority to come in and start regulating these things all as medical devices and all those Pharmaceuticals. You're destroy Innovation.

Ronjini Joshua: sure.

Jon Hacker: This industry. Most of big Pharma right now is from these smaller companies that end up being a wellness or…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: supplement. And so something else would have to be built in its place and the FDA does not want to spend the amount of money and resources to do that. I've talked with people in the FDA and they don't want to do that even…

Ronjini Joshua: Mm-hmm

Jon Hacker: though they all recognize it's a problem. The alternative is some sort of new agency or new rules and regulations regarding wellness products that require some sort of minimal form of testing and it gets a stamp of approval or alternatively again, just a essentially weaker FDA pathway Possible. It's where I see most likely going in the next five 10 years. That's where I hope it goes. Because there's some really strong potential there.

Ronjini Joshua: 

Jon Hacker: But that's to be seen more than anything else.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: The third is that the industry starts itself, natural rules of capitalism. The companies actually work rise to the top the ones that don't fall to the bottom. The problem is that right now frankly if you have good marketing and and advertising that means a lot more than if your product works. That's a sad reality and…

Ronjini Joshua: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jon Hacker: it's great to have both but one is necessary and the other isn't and…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Jon Hacker: sadly the one that is necessary is not the product working. And this is for all Industries.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: This isn't just for wellness supplements Etc. This is for everywhere as long as people buy the product. And as long as they believe it's working. That's enough in many Industries. In order to shift that is I don't know if really gonna see that happening and that's going to take a while that's going to take maybe five 10 years minimum.

Ronjini Joshua: Five to ten years. It's a long time. That's all.

Jon Hacker: It is so here's the thing.

Ronjini Joshua: That's a long time.

Jon Hacker: That is without what I would say our interference in the matter part of the reason why I started this company in the first place was to start helping address some of these major gaps. And frankly in your stimulation, which is where we are. there's a lot of BS out there and I would say again here's opinion. I'm sure people will disagree with me in this specially you'll have doctors disagreeing and doctors agreeing with me on this. I've talked to both

Jon Hacker: Electrical stimulation products that are not invasive do not work. period

00:25:00

Jon Hacker: because the energy does not really reach the nerve and a lot of times you don't see any significant effect over placebo. That doesn't mean to a lot of our listeners, but that's a very controversial statement that I just made. And moving to slowly slow those type of products and to great date them out at All right, let me make all week in the same. At least they are not significant for many users. And moving to move those products out of the industry and move in new generations of products. Let's say for example, ultrasound is really necessary for the future of this industry.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah, interesting. That is a lot to chew on that is a logic one.

Jon Hacker: Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: And I think you're right. I mean I'm gonna go back to the marketing and obviously, that good marketing and PR can do a lot of Wonders whether your product works or not. So that's something I think consumers really need to be careful of and I feel like there's this two different camps of companies right now ones that are very ethically minded that are really trying to be authentic and

Ronjini Joshua: I would say honest and transparent and…

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: then other companies that are just trying to make money and I think people kind of can see based on who's behind these companies and I think a lot more people in this generation are doing their homework on these different companies and where they're coming from what the backgrounds are of the people running it. So I encourage anybody listening to really kind of think about that as they brand messaging their brand visibility really kind of a lot of what we do is thought leadership as a PR agency and so we actually Pull out the expertise from CEOs and the executives to really show their knowledge of the industry. You're obviously very knowledgeable about the wellness industry, but you can't say that about everybody right? Some people are just there to sell a product.

Jon Hacker: Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: So I think that's really important when you're branding and positioning is don't just look at the

Ronjini Joshua: Cool reviews that come out but also take a look at the people behind the product and where they came from what research they might be doing or you don't know yet. Hopefully in this Kickstarter campaign, you'll be able to kind of unveil some of the stuff that you guys have heard some of the feedback and I love the idea that you're talking to lots of different types of people. I think as a PR person who's in a lot of crowdfunding campaigns, it would be great to hear from doctors on the positive side and the negative side or any of the opposing views is actually very eye-opening and I think it gives people that transparency and trust that they're looking for too.

Jon Hacker: for sure, and I mean Sadly, it's a very common practice for companies to make strawman arguments when it's their core directives…

Ronjini Joshua: Yes, yeah.

Jon Hacker: which it makes sense from a third grader level. Hey, so you have your main argument here, you have your product and so anything that's against we'll make a straw man here, but there is a lot of real. Boompa behind taking someone that is credible and actually knows what they're talking about and having a real argument against whatever part of your product and then being able to properly answer it.

Jon Hacker: Again, if it's the stage for that can really depend maybe the stage for that is in your website. Maybe that's in a talk that you're doing. Maybe that's in their conference Etc. But having that available to people can convince them. I'll also note you you went a little bit into ethically driven companies. here my honest opinion on that is that Sadly there is a competitive advantage to only being minded about profits. Because that you spend less energy and…

Ronjini Joshua: course

Jon Hacker: you do things more efficiently for profits. The neat thing is that a lot of times there is a shifting of what actually makes profit to a more ethical based mindset. But in the end people that are solely focused on profits are going to have that advantage and you have to have some sort of other advantage to counter that and…

Ronjini Joshua: no.

Jon Hacker: you can't count on a consumer to fully inform themselves you as an executive should be informed on everything to do with your company and…

Ronjini Joshua: right

Ronjini Joshua: Yes.

Jon Hacker: your space the consumer you have to assume is informed on nothing. And so you are their first introduction to the space.

Ronjini Joshua: Yeah.

Jon Hacker: How can you explain to them how the space Works without making their eyes glaze over and how can you do in a way that's also ethical in telling them the full truth without emitting anything it's hard.

Ronjini Joshua: right Yeah.

Jon Hacker: It's practically impossible. We can only ever strive to get us close as possible to that ideal.

Ronjini Joshua: John thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story so far. We're really excited to see how it unfolds obviously and then for everybody listening, I'm gonna be back in a couple minutes with some tips on how to launch a product and have a successful crowdfunding campaign and things that you should think about as you're kind of coming out with something new and I think actually this, Zen buds case study is such a great Eight thing that we can watch unfold and hopefully you guys have some really great success. I think you're on the right track and we look forward to seeing what happens with Kickstarter soon pbd, right?

00:30:00

Jon Hacker: Yes, thank you. It was been wonderful talking.

Ronjini Joshua: All Thank you so much. And before we get off, why don't you give us that website again and how people can reach you if they want to talk to you.

Jon Hacker: For So our website is That's Zen b u d dot Health you can also find us at nerdgear.com. They both go to the same place and that's spelled any you are gear. My email is hacker hacer. That is my actual last name fun fact my brother and my father are computer scientists. So they're more traditional hacker than I am. But it's hacker at nerd gear in EU are gear.com if you're either interested in being part of our Program or alternatively one either make comments on one of the very controversial things. I said during this podcast or alternatively just reach out and chat. I'm always Feel free to email me.

Ronjini Joshua: Thanks so much.

Jon Hacker: But thank you.

Meeting ended after 00:31:38 👋

Ronjini Joshua: All right guys, I'm back. And that was a great conversation with Jon hacker of near gear and zenbuds and I want to talk to you guys a little bit about crowdfunding and product launches and that's basically what he's doing and the great thing about what he's doing the campaign is not started yet. But he's really seeding the campaign building trust and getting the product out there in advance of the campaign and in today's Kickstarter landscape, you really have to have your almost final product ready to go. based on what he told me. He said that they're gonna be making iterations and they're gonna make improvements before the kickstarter campaign goes live to actual product. And so this is a great way for them to beta test it they're offering it at a higher price looking to have it at a lower price for their Kickstarter campaign, but have actual production units. This also helps the media actually buy into the idea a little bit more because you can actually have the units in hand use them.

Ronjini Joshua: Right now so this is another great way to navigate the media that doesn't not cover Kickstarter campaigns and a lot of them don't anymore and to kind of circumvent that whole process you can give them these pilot units. So I think this is a great way this great example of leveraging pre

Ronjini Joshua: sales media before your Kickstarter campaign and really generating a great Buzz so they have baked in a lot of time for this probably a year from what I understand. It'll probably be closer to Q4 of 2024. So they've really decided that they're gonna kind of put a full investment. this is Kickstarter is in the maker break. It's a market validation. It's a proof point. And so this is a great thing to think about when you're getting into our Kickstarter campaign or a product launch in general. Make sure you have these viable products and get them out to the media get them out to customers get those reviews get those feedback on video text articles. they did I think their startup

Ronjini Joshua: was featured in Eureka Park. And so that's where I had met them in Eureka park at CES. So it was great for them to go. everybody has the bandwidth to kind of go to something like CES, but there are other smaller events their CES unveiled that was at CES but pepcom has several media events in New York and in San Francisco, you could take a look at those and preview your product to the media So there's a lot of opportunities. So the great thing the takeaway from this conversation was make sure that you're really fully committed and have the knowledge behind the product before you go live and if you Create a buzz. This is a great way to do it. They've got their early pilot, which is more expensive for beta testers and then they've got their $1 reservation fee, to help collect a really more

Ronjini Joshua: Credible email list for their Kickstarter campaign. So these are a few lessons you could take away from Thanks to Jon hacker from near gear and I look forward to talking to you guys in the next podcast.